Sunday, August 1, 2010

Well, that was pleasant, wasn't it?

The only part of it that had me cursing was the Evidence essay on Tuesday.  I spent a few days on my evidence outline, and a fair part of that was on character, but I didn't beat it to death.  As such, I could have been better prepared for that one. 

The MBEs have me worried a bit.  I can usually find an answer I like pretty quickly, and I can almost always narrow it down between the two better options.  But this exam seemed to have many questions in which all four answer choices seemed reasonable.  I finished all 200 MBEs, but every time I looked at my clock I was three or four questions behind schedule.  

The whole exam seemed to be a wolf in sheep's clothing.  Besides that Evidence essay (and the MBEs generally), it seemed pretty straightforward.  Which is usually a bad sign.

But, hey, shiitake happens, right?  I'm keeping my fingers crossed and my outlines on my desk. 

27 comments:

Anonymous said...

Well, the best thing we can do is be positive and hope for the best. The mbes were really hard and surprisingly enough there were many questions involving wills and civ pro issues.

I feel horryble because I was not expecting com property and agency/partnership to be tested again. I failed to prepare for them. Did anybody discuss solicitation of clients on the PR question?

Good luck to all of the July takers but specially all of us repeaters because it is hard to be positive sometimes. :)

Anonymous said...

GP-

Based on your experience, how much does it take to get a 60 or 65 on an essay?

Are they extremely stringy with points?

Thanks,

Worried first timer.

Anonymous said...

(for first time worried person) I think in terms of scoring a 60 to 65 it depends on the difficulty of the question. If you read the general bar examination page, everything is pretty scaled. Meaning that if the essays/ PT were much easier, the scale would be lower (meaning the graders would be look for more particular answers). Whereas in if the essays/PT were much harder, the scale would be greater (graders are more flexible but not so flexible where it would be from left field). So scoring a 60 to 65 just depends on the difficulty of the exam and whether you were able to hit all the issues.

In terms of the first comment, if you discuss an issue that someone else didn't, it doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong as long as you used a common sense argument and facts to support. Again though, depends on the difficulty of the exam.

Anonymous said...

If the MBE portion of the exam is getting more difficult, it probably means that all 50 states are trying hard to lower the passing rate and cut down on the number of licensed attorneys. Another recession problem

Anonymous said...

@7:14pm

This is good news for me. California has way too many attorneys already.

Anonymous said...

Hi GP,
I am glad to know that you took the exam!
It is disheartening to know that the MBE portion is more difficult. Does anyone know why they changed their format?

-R. Epeater

Anonymous said...

GP: I have a question for you.

You indicated before that on Feb your PT score was 60 for both. I got 55's on both. this tried I tried to improve but I missed some of the presentation things that one must do such as brief description of why the attorney needs the advice on the second memo. I gave an introduction , brief, and went straight to state the questions and then the answers. My conclusion did not reiterate all the points I discussed. So, Any idea how to improve the headlines? I missed a big rule also ont he last PT, the fact that the attorney couldn't file until she was discharged by the client. I am not sure how that specific rule affected the other answers. Any thoguhts. I need to get better at PT's if I have to take the exam again.

Anonymous said...

I recommend Patrick Lin for the PT's. He That said, time will tell! Don't wanna seem my scores..

Anonymous said...

Agree with you on the MBE's being tougher. They will scale it accordingly though!

Anonymous said...

how did they test torts, pr, evidence, comm prop and crimes?

i was a fifth time passer last july and thought the july exam was MUCH easier than an average feb exam. thus, if you thought the essays were straightforward, that means they likely were and you were prepared.

Anonymous said...

Poobah,

Are you attending the ABA conference in SF this week? If you are I will look around for you :)

good luck in passing

Anonymous said...

To the first anonymous commenter: I did discuss solicitation briefly. I spent the longest time on the duty of loyalty, and then I wasn't sure what else they wanted so I threw it in. Who knows, right? I'm sure it won't hurt that you threw it in. :-)

To everyone: Does anyone else feel confused by the scaling? I just took it for the third consecutive time. Granted, I have only seen MBE conversion tables for Feb 2010, July 2009, and July 2008, but the raw scores needed to pass February 2010 seemed SO MUCH higher than the other two. I think the raw scores you needed for Feb 2010 were 628 written/127 MBE v. 605-608 written/127 MBE. A 20 point difference in the written section is pretty major, I think.

So, my question is...does anyone know if the scaling is generally more like Feb 2010 or July 2008 & 2009?

Taking the exam is bad enough, but then not even being able to estimate how you might have actually scored is incredibly hard to endure for three months!

Jonathan L. Kramer, Esq. said...

Just popping in to wish all of you takers (and especially one in particular) good news in November.

Jonathan

Anonymous said...

I am so confused too about the scaling thing. Im so worried that the essays seems fairly easy and I still screwed up big time on some of the questions, that I can only hope that my mbes can be be of help, but who knows they were really hard.

My concern though is that if the essays were easy than the expectations are greater; therefore, eliminating my chance of passing this second time.
Furthermore, I was not expecting Agency again. I took the risk of outsmarting the BAR by guessing the subjects... Anyways.

Sad Repeater.

Anonymous said...

As a rule of thumb, which i've heard from I think Barbri, in reality it really is a pass fail type of exam. So it's pretty discretionary up to the grader in terms of PT's and Essays. I heard that they read your essay and PT within 5 minutes. If they like it and feel you made good points and argue/sound like a lawyer they give you a passing grade. If however they have to spend like 10-15 minutes trying to figure out what your talking about then your in trouble. So the whole "I only missed it by 10 points etc.)" really doesn't make that much of a difference. Seems like the only thing you can control is the MBE.

Anonymous said...

Does anybody remember what issues were on the CA Evidence question?

Call 1:

Wanda's testimony re: husband's statement.
1. Relevance= CA requires the fact be in dispute
2. Competence
3. Hearsay
4.Exceptions: exciated utterance & Spontaneous statements because CA does not have Present sense

CAll 2: Character evidence
Impeachment

Call 3: character ev?

Anonymous said...

A few people have re-hashed the Evidence essay on this website:

http://www.all4jds.com/Group/asg/16/aft/14668/showtab/groupforums.aspx

Anonymous said...

The weird thing about the CA bar exam, is they scale the essays and PTs to the MBE national mean. This means that if the national mean on the MBE is low--then CA essays will be scaled downward also. Why do they do it this way? I have no clue. So, essentially, if what examinees are saying turns out to be true--that MBEs were tougher--resulting in a lower MBE mean--then CA essays are stacked up against than accordingly. That would result in a lower pass rate.

Pray this is not the case.

Anonymous said...

Are you sure about that? I think the MBEs last February were considered "easier" and the the raw scores needed to pass on the written section were then higher.

Similarly, the MBE section on the previous July administration was considered "harder" and the raw scores needed to pass on the written section were then lower.

Plus, the average pass rates appear to have remained relatively consistent for the July and February sessions respectively.

I'm not saying you're wrong - I'm just asking. I would like to think a harder MBE would mean lower raw scores were needed on the written portion....

Anonymous said...

GP-

3.5 months till you hear the news that you did it.

I feel good about this one.

-CUBuff

Anonymous said...

All one has to look at is the scoring sheet that the Bar gives out. They say they scale the essays to the MBE mean. Then use the formula (even on an old one) and calculate the score.

It's weird how CA grades the exam. Seems there is no rhyme nor reason to it. But the CA Bar states it scales the essays to the MBE mean.

Anonymous said...

Reading these comments leaves me both relieved and worried at the same time. I'm glad to hear that many of us struggled with the Evidence essay. Character evidence was never my strongest topic. Did anyone else include (1) spousal privilege, (2) double hearsay, and (3) dying declaration, all re: Wanda's testimony (distinguishing each, of course)?? Just wondering.

Anonymous said...

Did anyone take the exam in Pasadena like me? And if so, were you adversely affected by the erroneous 5-minute warning announcement that was made 5 minutes early on the morning section of the MBE on Wednesday July 28?

Anonymous said...

For some reason I was really thrown off with the time and didn't even get to finish the evidence essay. I don't even know if I can pass by answering only half of the essay :(

Anonymous said...

Hey, cheer up. You can still pass even if you don't finish an essay. It's just a matter of how everything balances out as a whole. Try not to get too discouraged about it.

(And yes, I know this is easier said than done.)

Anonymous said...

I thought the February 2010 MBE was difficult (and one of the essay questions was vague and impossible)...and I passed the CA Bar Exam on Attempt #1. It's just a strange test to gauge...you never really know!

Anonymous said...

yes, I took the Pasadena exam this past July. That 5 minute warning error was terrible. But is there anything unsuccessful applicants can do about it?