Monday, November 21, 2011

Alrighty Then ...

Got into re-read again, for the third or fourth consecutive exam; 1396/1377.  140 raw on the MBEs.  560 average raw on my writing.  If I had scored 10 points higher on both of my PTs I would have passed. 

And they did accept my late essays. 

44 comments:

Anonymous said...

Do you mind updating your post with a breakdown of your scores?

recent passer said...

Keep at it! You've worked so hard and You've gotten so close! You will pass!

legis said...

I keep getting closer too. I can definitely feel your pain. Keep going, push those essays into passing range.

Anonymous said...

GP: Just passed on my 15th try. My MBE's were always high but not so with essays and pt.I finally got a tutor to improve my essay and pt writing and I should have done it sooner. It put me over the top. Good luck GP and keep on keeping on.

Anonymous said...

Focus on your writing. It clearly needs help. It's the reason you have failed constantly. Getting 10 points more on each PT is no easy task...

Anonymous said...

I just found out that I passed on my third try - I wasn't sure that I could pull myself out of the despair I felt after failing twice, but I pushed through and was lucky enough to finally succeed. I am sending you positive vibes, it IS possible and I am sure that you will pass very soon. Keep at it! Your determination is inspiring.

Anonymous said...

I am so sorry. Please do Bar Graders next time! They helped me with essays and PTs...

Jessie said...

OH, Grand Poobah! I just had a sweet anonymous commenter on my blog mention that I was somewhere in your blog, so I had to google you! As it turns out, I read your blog for hours one night while I was studying for the CBX for the third time.

Now, I have finally passed, and I have just freshly posted what I think did it. Sure, it's long. Sure, it's detailed (perhaps too much so). But I hope it might help. ???

http://jessie-zaylia.blogspot.com/2011/11/how-i-passed-california-bar-exam.html

Anonymous said...

15 times?!?!? Wow. 8 years of trying. I hope it was worth it.

Anonymous said...

Anon 6:31. Was it worth eight years to try and pass bar. Definitiely yes because I was able to get eight years of legal experience in a firm where my track record allowed me to move into an associate position as soon as I passed. If it took me 8 years to pass without getting legal experience I would now be trying to get a job without experince. That would have been very difficult, especially in this environment.

Anonymous said...

15 attempts before passing. Congrats to you! Very inspiring. Can you detail your weakness and how you overcame it exactly? Like GP, I've got a high mbe score (145 raw), but am failing the PT's (primarily) and the essays (secondarily). I think I speak for GP (and others). We would love to hear your story. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

Anon 8:13. Thanks for the kind words. The tutor I used changed my writing style for the essays and pts. I was much too wordy and the tutor convinced me that the essay and pt graders devote a limited time to each essay because they have so many to correct. He taught me how to make my points including analsis and conclusions in a concise format.In essence he helped put me in the place of a bar grader who after a full day at work, comes home, has dinner, spends some quality time with the family, and then has to read multiple essays on the same topic. You can imagine that the graders focus is to look for the relevant issues, rules and conclusions quickly before moving on to the next essay. So I did many essays and the tutor kept correcting my style, pointing out where I was losing focus. It was kind of like a karate kid process of retraining. But it obviously worked so I am pleased that I made the effort. Good luck to you and all who struggle with this devil. As you can see by my story, there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 8:57 -- Who was your tudor?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 8:57 I would be happy to give you the tutor's name but I am not sure if my serious post here will be misinterpreted as an effort to promote a tutor. GP got a lot of grief from some people for promting a book so I am reluctant to use this forum for something that might be looked at as spam. If it is ok with GP I would be happy to post the tutor's name.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 12:14 -- I think part of the reason why GP's blog is so popular is because people share their success strategies. Most people use bar preps and tutors to study, so I think sharing your tutor's name is in the spirit of this blog and will not be looked at negatively. So post away...

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 11:54 -- my tudor was King George III

Anonymous said...

That's interesting because King George III was not part of the Tudor dynasty. If you would have said King Henry VII, that would have made sense.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 1:58 -- Oh sorry didn't have time to fact check that, I was busy sending in my registration with the state bar.

P.S. You should take BarBri you would probably save money in the long run since the Bar doesn't test history.

Anonymous said...

Stop trying to be a goat, the bar is looking for sheep. BarBri teaches you how to make your essay look as close to the model answers as possible. The comment of above me is correct; it is much cheaper in the long run.

Anonymous said...

Whoever that poster was, he or she could be on to something. I did not pass but two of my essays landed a 70 and 75. As I recall, I did not lay out a masterpiece. When I get them back, I will send them to GP to post.

I think I just spotted the issues and analyzed. Nothing beautiful. I think you will be shocked as to what the bar graders thought was good. ( I remember that I thought it was a mess when I was typing away.)

Of course, I managed to ball up three with a quality score of 55. I remember I thought I did a great job on those. lol. So go figure.

Guy Chambliss said...

Essays are one of the most crucial parts in law school. But in spite of the hardships, essays can help students think sharper and enhance their reasoning skills. I'm pretty sure you'll pass! =)

Patrick H. McCloskey said...

I'm in the same boat.

This was my second try and I didn't make it. here's my scores:

MBE
conlaw 23
contracts 27
crim 20
evid 15
Prop 26
Torts 26
Raw 137

Scaled 1518

Written
1 - 55
2 - 50
3 - 65
4 - 55
5 - 60
6 - 65
PTA - 65
PTB - 55

Raw 587.5
Scaled 1367.4701

Total Scaled 1420.1556

Pat

Anonymous said...

HERE IS A KEY QUESTION: HOW IS IT THAT 76% OF FIRST TIME TAKERS PASS?

THAT IS THE ONE ASTOUNDING FACT THAT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE TO ME.

A GREAT STUDENT IN NEED OF LUCK WHO IS TAKING THE EXAM FOR THE 5TH TIME AND BEING VERY CLOSE EACH TIME; SHOULD RUN CIRCLES AROUND A GREAT STUDENT WITH 2 MONTHS OF BAR STUDY AFTER GRADUATION.

ANY THOUGHTFUL EXPLANATIONS?

Anonymous said...

Take Legal Education Conference Center (LECC). You will pass after taking this course if you do everything that Professor Schmitt tells you to do.

Good luck with your umpteenth try. Many prayers and blessings are with you. I know why you keep trying, you've put too much into it at this point to stop now. Keep on keeping on like others have said.

Best of luck in February 2012.

Anonymous said...

What do you call someone who takes the bar exam numerous times and finally passes?

Answer: A Lawyer.

Fanboy said...

The statistic isn't that 76% of all first time takes pass, it's 76% of first time takes from ABA accredited schools in California pass. Out of state ABA have 66% first time pass rate. California is one of the few states that allows students from unaccredited take the bar and they have a lower pass rate as a whole. In July 2010, only 20% of first time takes from CA unaccredited law schools passed. For repeaters, it was 10%.

Of course, not all California ABA law schools are created equal in the eyes of the bar. My own law school's pass rate is seems to be about 50%, while top law schools are more like 80%. Stanford has a 98% pass rate!

Anonymous said...

It is rumored that Stanford and other ABA-approved law schools in Northern California mandate that their graduating 3Ls take a PT writing class each semester; thus, their 80 to 98 percent pass rates.

Does anyone know if there is any truth to that?

Anonymous said...

You are wasting your life away. Stop it. Please quit. You will not pass.

Fanboy said...

Anon 12:50, my ABA approved law school didn't have that requirement, but it's not a bad idea. I wouldn't be surprised either way with schools like Stanford or UC Berkeley.

PTs are an important part of the exam because they score on the same 100 point scale, but then they double that score. So, for example, if you get a 55 on PT-A (a clear fail) that's like getting TWO 55s. Difficult to recover from. My bar exam instructor suggested that everyone do eight past PTs to get used to the format.

Anonymous said...

I went to HLS, which consistently has pass rates in the 90s. We don't do practice PTs, and I'd be shocked if SLS or Boalt do either. We're just competent law students/attorneys. This is a test of minimum competence, folks. Reasonably intelligent people do not need years and years of practice or special coaching to pass it.

Fanboy said...

Anon 4:53 if you're saying that reasonably intelligent people don't years of special coaching or practice, I agree with you. But I think it's important to study for the exam and make special preparations for the bar. It's not just a test of minimum competence.

For example, Kathleen Sullivan (Dean of Stanford Law School) failed the attorney's examination in July 2005. (I.e., she didn't have to take the MBE.) She passed the second time the following February.

Even if she wasn't the dean of a prestigious law school, she meets and exceeds every definition of minimally competent lawyer.

I suspect the reason that Harvard, Stanford, and UC Berkeley students do so well on the exam is that those schools usually choose students with better study habits. It goes with being highly selective.

Anonymous said...

This past exam, I sat next to a guy who finished both 3-hour mbe sections in 1 hour. He was a Harvard grad taking the test for the first time, and passed. So it's not just merely better study habits, but higher IQs. People that get accepted and go to tier 1 schools, are simply smarter than people that go to tier 4 schools. Fortunately for us tier 4 folks, being smart doesn't necessarily equate to being a good atty or running a good law firm.

Anonymous said...

Someone asked about stanford (or other top schools) requiring their students to take pt classes....no that is definitely not true. They got into those schools for a reason, they do not need remedial classes.

Anonymous said...

Anon 7:28:

Lol! Seriously...

Fanboy said...

If they don't need remedial courses, then why do they still take Bar/Bri?

Anonymous said...

People from such schools take BarBri because BarBri provides them with all the study materials needed to pass the exam. Some people self-study with those materials and others attend classes. Perhaps, just as important as the study materials, it is understanding how the exam is graded and what are the subjects regularly tested. Note: I am not the poster above, but just wanted to provide you with a reason for why such students take BarBri. And, perhaps even more important, some employers pay for BarBri.

Fanboy said...

Which makes perfect sense. I know why people take BarBri, because they want to pass the bar. I just dislike the implication that taking a class on PTs is some how "remedial" when most people who take the bar take a class on the PTs as part of their bar prep.

Anonymous said...

Fanboy: I don't think BarBri meets the definition of a "remedial course". You may want to "check your work" on that one

Fanboy said...

Someone above said "Someone asked about stanford (or other top schools) requiring their students to take pt classes....no that is definitely not true. They got into those schools for a reason, they do not need remedial classes."

I.e, they said that PT classes are remedial. BarBri has PT classes. Therefor, anyone who take BarBri is taking a remedial class.

My point wasn't to agree with the person that PT classes are remedial. My point to was that top tier law school graduates need bar prep courses just like the rest of us.

Anonymous said...

The HLS commenter did not make a smart comment because the bar is not an IQ test and because it is very likely that the grader is not taking the time to read the exam. You can have genius work but you still have to be lucky to get a grader who actually reads the exam.

To the HLS victor goes the ignorant spoils.

Our current governor/former attorney general was reasonably competent. why did it take him 4 times? Don't discount your luck HLS dude.

Anonymous said...

I'm dyslexic. I had a very very difficult time with the PTs, Flemings Fundamentals of law's PT course, coupled with completing a full blown PT exam every other night for a month is why I passed the BAR. Its a total bitch, but it has to be done. Don't short change yourself thinking you don't need the practice.

Anonymous said...

Have you thought about private tutoring? It may be your best bet. I am sure there are just little things you're missing, and private tutoring really could help. My husband used Ameribar private tutoring for the CA bar this summer (and passed), after failing another state bar twice. It is worth the extra money since it could ensure you pass and the CA bar is very very expensive to keep taking. Maybe something to consider...

Anonymous said...

Oh, and I forgot to add that my husband took BarBri for the other state exam. It just didn't work for him, the format wasn't right for his style of learning and he needed a program that enabled him to study on his own without being in a classroom 4 hours a day. The private tutor helped, and since I passed several other state bars many years ago I helped a bit too. But - the tutoring REALLY made the difference. Good luck next time - the bar is really about strategy, not intelligence (or memorization for that matter).

Anonymous said...

I took and passed the July 07 CA Bar Exam. I had never done a PT before BarBri, and the first one I did took me 5 hours. There might have been weeping. But after that I did two PTs a day until I had been through most of the practice ones I could get my hands on. Did that suck? Oh yes. But I felt after that like I could handle anything thrown at me and write about it well and reasonably coherently. If you have taken the bar exam several times you know the law. That's clear from the posters here. Just one person's opinion, but at this point I think you should do every PT you can get your hands on, multiple times, until you can polish a legible one off in your sleep. As for test prep, I wouldn't have passed if I hadn't taken BarBri. That's all I can say about that. Hang in there!