The Usual Suspects is on. Great flick. Haven't seen it in years. I think if I was going to be any character in that motley crew I'd be Keyser Söze. Of course, he never really appears in the movie. He's a big influence, but he never makes it onto the screen.
That's me all over.
More model answers here:Questions 1-3.
30 comments:
Wow...I hadn't looked at any questions since I passed. I forgot how twisted the examiners are.
Seriously? Organ transportation and a gasoline truck? Thank God they restrained themselves and didn't take it where we all thought they were going to take it...Eww...
Twisted.
Great movie. He is in almost every scene of the movie you just don't realize it until the end. Remember, "the greatest trick the devil ever pulled off was convincing the world he didn't exist!"
After looking at the one-timers site and using their bar exam grade analyzer, it seems by just putting in pretty terrible scores on the essays (3 - 60s and 3 - 55s) and mixing in 2 - 70s on the PRs and a 120 on the MBR, you pass with a 1450. That doesn't seem to hard. So why is it so many people can't pass this test? This from a 2 time taker waiting for results from July 2009.
Anon 1:38: I believe the answer to your questions is this: The examiners are looking for a particular pattern or style in the answers. If you present your answer in a familiar format, you're in. The degree to which your answer deviates from the style they're expecting, your scores drop.
But then that's just my opinion.
to anon 1:38
anyone who has ever failed the exam knows that 3 60's, 3 55's, and 2 70's is not as easy as it sounds. 70's on the pt's, in and of itself, is quite an accomplishment. from someone who always did well on the mbe section, i can tell you that getting almost terrible scores on the essays and pt's requires more than you'd think.
AVERAGING 62 ACROSS THE BOARD ON THE CALIFORNIA BAR EXAM IS NOT THAT EAASSSYYYY!!!!!
i don't think the grade calculator on onetimers website is accurate b/c it is using July 08 grading formula which we all know by now it was one of the highest passage rate in the history of the bar and it was clearly due to the earthquake. Therefore, that is NOT realistic. If you look at the feb formula or the july 2006 formula which you could find by googling, you will see that the sames scores that you plug in the july 08 formula does not get you a passing score in other years.
I am a repeater having taken the exam three times. Even though I believe that I did relatively better last July than I did during the previous two administrations, the essay Qs seemed much harder this time. Is it just me or others feel the same way?
All right - as someone who finally passed in July 08, I am annoyed and tired of seeing this persistent view that the high passage rate was due to the earthquake. Jesus christ. Out of ALL the test sites there were simply not that many that had bonus points added. Stop whining, do you really wish you'd been taking the exam during a quake???!!!
Also, who in their right mind thinks that getting a 70, not once but twice on the PTs is relatively simple? I'd love to hear from repeaters on this and not someone engaged in such wishful thinking as 3 60s, and 3 55s, 2 70s, a 120 MBE and voila you pass. If you write so poorly that you are getting 55s on the essays it's highly unlikely that you'll knock 2 PTS out with scores of 70 each.
Uh oh, we've got another "they all passed because of the earthquake" idiot on. No wonder that person can't pass the bar. If they were able to look at the adjustments given for the quake and see the effect it on pass rates at those centers, he wouldn't keep beating the same drum. Or maybe he would, which is why he will continue to fail the exam because he's got no real analytical skills.
Waiting for an "I passed, I'm just pointing out the obvious" response from earthquake idiot in 5, 4, 3, 2, .....
IF the high passage rate was NOT due to the earthquake, so should we expect as high a passage rate for this july?
Why on earth there was a 83% passage rate for ABA schools if it was not for the earthquake? You are just offended b/c you think your accomplishment of passing the bar has been granted to you without much effort.
As an attorney and someone with a sense of logic, you should not call others idiots just b/c they disagree w/ your point of view. If you you had an anylitical mind, cannot you accept differnt conclusion supported by facts?
Good luck getting a job with that mind of yours. It seems that you don't have one and that is why you are still bloging about the BAR. If you passed, b/c of your own efforts and not b/c points given to you during the earthquake, you would be very busy working now. If so, what are you doing on sites like these? Something to think about!
Anon 2:12 Take a look at the report from the bar about the pass rates at the testing centers. Why on earth would ABA test takers do as well in No Cal as in the So Cal areas that were NOT adjusted for the earthquake. Riddle me this? Again, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1....let the defensive whining begin.
Grand Poobah, which of the MBE prep materials (kaplan-pmbr, bar-bri, etc) do you believe offer the best source for preparation?
The written portion of the bar exam is scaled according to the average MBE results for that particular test administration. If the MBE average is high, the written exam scaling is correspondingly high to give test takers credit for taking the exam with higher achieving testers.
The scaling for the July bar exam's written portion is higher than February bar exam because the average MBE score is routinely higher in July. Someone taking the exam in July with the same raw scores would never-the-less receive a higher scaled written score than if the same raw scores were given in a February exam. So if you are plugging in hypothetical essay and PT scores and a MBE score, make sure you are using a formula that scales the written scores for a July administration of the bar exam if that is when you took the exam!
hi, this has nothing to do with your most current post, however, what's the general verdict when it comes to taking bar reivew tutoring with the foll? :
John Holtz
Jeff Fleming (Flemings Fundementals of Law)
Vivian Dempsey (the Writing Edge)
I am a repeater + a foreign atty and feel the need to take another course having taken barbri the first time around...
what are your thoughts?
Jeff Fleming (Flemings Fundamentals of Law) is a HUGE waste of money in my opinion. Several of my friends used his bar review and only one of them passed. We repeated with BarBri and most of us passed. BTW, no one has mentioned BarPassers but they are a bottom tier study program as well.
I can tell you that "BAR WITH BOBBY" is the worst bar review course. Do not take it.
i've heard many wonderful things about emerson's in sf. i took barbri last year while 6 of my friends took emerson's. i failed. they all passed.
was there a secret? not really. he forces you to write over 100 essays, 1500 mbes, and 12 pts.
I've never heard of anyone at an ABA that took flemming's bar study. Not even one. Everyone I've known that has taken flemming's was at a state accredited school and used his canned outlines/CDs to get through law school so they thought it would work for the bar, too. Wrong.
onetimers.com i think is good. You could see from the essays he posted on his site that he teaches you to respond to the questions. If I had the money, I would have taken him.
I tend to agree with the above comment about Flemings. In law school, there were students who relied heavily on Flemings outlines and exam techniques to get by. I don't think there is a shortcut to passing the bar exam though, it's not about learning the tricks that will get you thru exams. It's about knowing the law well, having a solid understanding of the law and doing an organized analysis on the essays and PTs. Flemings seemed "gimmicky" to me, might work for law school but not so well on the bar exam.
GP: Questions 5 and 6 were posted on One-TImers... Didn't see a proposed answer for Question 4. And someone who posted earlier was right, it doesn't make a difference looking at this stuff... But it's interesting to see what someone else wrote in a non-bar setting.
In response to above comments about the cause of the high passage rate in July '08. Since the written scores (essays, PT) are scaled according to the average MBE score for that test administration, the reason so many passed in July '08 is likely due to the high MBE average score that year. (Earthquake theories can be dismissed as the MBE was taken without earthquake interuptions.)
to anon @ 5:00pm
I certainly hope that you and some of the above posts are correct as to the high passage rate b/c that would make this july's passage rate possibly just as high.
Last poster: I don't follow your logic because July '08 bar pass rate was high, this July's passage rate is possibly just as high?
We don't know why the July '08 MBE scores were on average higher than they had been in a long time.
So there is no reason to believe that the July '09 MBE scores will also be just as high.
Note that the average MBE scaled score is used to scale the written exams. If the Bar Examiners determine that the July '09 MBE was an "easy" exam, they can scale the MBE lower to adjust for the difficulty level (or lack thereof). This would make the average MBE scaled score LOWER and not help us at all.
There are too many variables to predict what the July '09 pass rate will be at this time. I'm just hoping everyone did well on the MBE and that the version of the exam we took wasn't "easy" compared to past MBE's!
to annon at 3:21
I'm not an expet in this but my understanding was that when they scale the written scores to the MBE, they don't mess with the MBE. that is, "they never scale teh MBE lower" but rather, the whole reason they scale the essays to the MBE, b/c the MBE is a better indicator and it could maintain the uniformity of the exam.
My logic that you stated that you could not follow, was the the MBE would be better in july b/c it usually is compared to feb AND the format of the MBE changed so people started doing better.
ON the other hand, since they don't publish what statistical computation is used, like other states do e.g. as MD does, in converting the raw written to scaled using the MBE scale it is difficult to understand them.
Thanks for clarifying your earlier conclusions. I agree with the generalization "July MBE scores are higher" so we should see a higher passage rate. There is reason for pessimism because the February 2009 MBE's were at a near record low. My understanding is that the "new format" MBE appeared in its first form on the February 2009 MBE and while the shorter fact patterns are great, it doesn't mean the MBE exam itself is now easier. Just packaged more compactly, but just as hard as ever. That's why its hard to predict what July 2009 MBE scores will look like.
There are 2 factors to consider: 1) MBE raw scores converted to scaled score based on the difficulty level of that particular MBE exam. The Bar Examiners use 2 techniques to determine the difficulty level. One technique embeds the same MBE questions (about 10-20) on different test administrations for comparison purposes. It gets pretty detailed...
If a test is determined to be relatively "easy" compared to previous MBE's, the scaled score is harsher and lower to reflect the difficulty level. For July 2009 we are hoping then for a moderate-to-difficult exam resulting in a high scaling of raw MBE scores.
2) The second consideration: the average MBE scaled score for that test administration is then used to scale the written exam (essays, PTs). A higher MBE average score will result in a higher scaled written score, even while using the same raw scores. The rationale is that an average test taker should not be disadvantaged by taking the July bar exam with the superachieving law student graduates. The average test taker should get higher-scaled written scores in July because he or she is competing with other test takers of high quality. Whereas in February the opposite is true and an average test taker is not in danger of getting subjective written scores that are lower than expected because the applicant pool is not as strong. So the written scaling, using the average MBE score for February exam, is going to be lower.
The test administrators belief is that MBE scores are a good indicator of the competitiveness of an applicant pool for any given test. July = high, Feb = lower
YES! true and well said. I used the same scores I got for feb 09, which obviously I failed, to see I would have passed in July 2008 using that formula, and guess what, I ended up with MORE than 1440.
So I guess, IF the MBE average was high in Feb, 09, that would have resulted in my raw written scores to be multiplied by the forumal, which is based on the MBE STATE average, and would have gotten a passing score.
BOTTOM line: it sucks to be a first time taker in Feb. OR even better, one should NOT take a feb bar exam PERIOD.
One thing surprises me though, is WHY on earn the JULY repeaters have a LOWER passage rate than the Feb repeaters? I could think of one reason, is that July repeaters are MORE than 2 time repeaters w/ a lower passage rate than 2nd timers who usually take it in Feb. Not sure, though, if that accounts for the huge difference.
If anyone knows why, please tell me b/c I"m seriously freaking out now. I'm a repearter in July so I feel my chances are less than 19%! I cannot do any work, I'm glued to the computer and just checking statistics, other states bar releases, any thing ... bar related. I CANNOT see this message again "the applicant number you have entered does NOT match a name on the pass list." I hate this message.
I don't know how I can wait for 14 more days.
Yes 14 more days before results!
Regarding the use of scores from Feb '09 to determine if those same scores would have passed July '08... that's exactly what the written scaling to the MBE average intends to correct for - the applicant testing pool that one must compete against in February (low competition) as opposed to July (high competition). The Bar Examiners found that despite the difference in the quality of the testing pool in July with all the first-time takers vs. the February testing pool with many repeaters, the average written scores remained the same between Feb and July. This means the bar graders are giving higher written grades to February test takers given their lower competency level (based on average MBE score). That's why the written scale (based on average MBE score) is adjusted to correct for this subjectivity in grading. By lowering the written scale based on lower MBE average score, the overall written point total is lowered (reducing chances of passing).
Not long now before we get those results. Ready or not!
I love y'all but you're nuts.
TX Lawyer
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